It's fascinating, that as a woman with a labia, you would go toe to toe with someone who profits from women wanting labiaplasty.
Curious too that in a world obsessed with size, that a man with a large penis is a cultural ideal, whereas a woman with a large labia is not equally desired. *sigh*
And as a sex educator, might I point out to the class that labias are erogenous tissue. Altering the labia can damage the nerve endings and impact a woman's ability to feel pleasure.
Empowerment is what I call a double-A word: “automatic assent.” Who could argue with it? So when you use it, you’re not trying to have a discussion, you’re trying to preemptively shut down the argument in your favor. You were right to call it out.
Having just experienced immediate menopause due to uterine cancer and a complete hysterectomy, I have noticed my labia have now grown and are larger and now appear to be “curly iris petals “ rather than the right orchids they once were.
That was a long sentence. I need to go back to school so I can learn more about sentence structure and labiaplasty. Wow.
I suppose after that I’ll learn about surgical vaginal tightening and reformation.
Do we really need these things? Do I need the appearance of my lady parts to appear as aesthetically pleasing as porn stars lady parts appear?
Hmmm
I’m not getting my face botoxed, I think I’ll skip labiaplasty unless mine decide to grow halfway down my thighs or begin to get in my way when cleansing.
Thanks for your thoughts on this procedure as well
What price vanity? Are you really 'individual' if you dress, style, color, shape or cut yourself to look like everyone else?
What happens to your psyche when you don't have that look and you never will? Wait, I know...It's all advertising people, you were sold the sizzle and not the steak!
Is Labiaplasty "Empowering?" No, it's demeaning, it tells you that you aren't the perfect person.
Know what ? Perfection is boring as Hell and when everyone is perfect, no one is!
Ms. Taylor has it exactly right. The desire of an individual to undergo labiaplasty does not arise spontaneously but as a manifestation of social pressures to conform to a rigid - and unnatural - (and, at least for this hetero, cisgender male, highly unappealing) standard of beauty. Not only is that not empowering - it is diametrically opposite to empowering.
Alas, genital modification surgery as a way of conforming to rigid, unnatural, culturally-constructed and socially enforced standards also affects boys and men. Many of the same cultural forces that have led to the popularization of labiaplasty are also behind the persistence of the practice of non-therapeutic penile circumcision. The penile prepuce has been vilified for over 150 years in a way that women's labia are now beginning to be vilified. The solution to our culture of body-shaming and profound dysfunction is not to succumb to this social pressure about genital appearance but to oppose it.
This is SO GOOD! It really takes me back to high school debate (in a good way). I love how you framed the discussion around what it actually means for something to be empowering in a broader cultural sense. So glad I found your newsletter through The Review of Beauty!
loved this! and hated the collection of photos of women holding flowers over their vulvas?? I remember a few months back being on tumblr and seeing a model whose account talked about her appearance a lot (staying thin, work she’d had done on her face, etc) saying that she was getting a labioplasty ‘just for myself’. I couldn’t put my finger on why I found it a strange explanation- mostly because it’s not something you can see yourself without trying, I guess. and I couldn’t conceive of how much you had to have internalised an external gaze to (I truly mean this without judgement) have someone unnecessarily cut and alter your labia. I think it takes a huge level of disconnect for the small ‘just for me’ feeling to overpower the human desire to not have your genitalia cut. her entire life has such a different context to mine that I know I wouldn’t get where she’s coming from, but sometimes I don’t think that necessarily means the contexts behind surgery (etc) aren’t a problem. e.g. I know with a lot of facial alterations in general it’s because everyone around someone (or the people they see online) has these things done, and so it completely changes your perception of it, whereas for so many people it’s still a foreign thing. I think most people can at least understand the concept of altering your face (the thing that you ‘wear’ everyday) in the same way we understand makeup and haircuts, though I do think it’s a different thing to cut into it, shave bones, and implant substances. but a labioplasty does seem like it’s a next level thing. maybe the urge to be so precious about the vulva being a symbol of empowerment in itself (eg mugs, dresses, notebooks with artsy vulva prints on them) is an issue on the other hand, because it makes something that’s so personal and can be sensitive for some people into what’s supposed to be a girlboss motif. but in general I think there’s a reason why many people find it hard to conceive of getting a labioplasty- it’s so far removed from a typical way of thinking about your appearance, and I’d even say it’s an extreme step for something that’s ‘empowering’
Well done, woman! I know women who have had this procedure. All of them have done it for the male gaze. There was a woman, I believe in Great Britain, who actually did an art installation of prints women made of their labia. THAT was empowering!
There was a freshman philosophy seminar at my Alma mater where the professor (a man) had as his first lesson a slideshow of pictures of vulvas and asked the class to critique the appearance of different labias.
And people wonder why philosophy, as a discipline, has such a marked gender imbalance and scares women away.
Is there a recording of the debates? I would be interested to watch.
I haven't heard the arguments the good doctor made in support of the statement "labiaplasties are empowering", but I will make a brief argument that breast augmentations or other cosmetic mammoplasties are empowering and try to generalize that to all cosmetic surgeries including labiaplasty:
Being attractive is a form of social power (for both men and women). Optimal breast size, shape, and symmetry can make a woman appear more attractive. Without mammoplasty, breast size, shape, and symmetry are dictated by factors largely out of women's control, putting women with less attractive breasts at a social power disadvantage to those with breasts considered more attractive. Mammoplasty allows these women to control the appearance of their breasts and make them more attractive, granting them additional social power.
The argument is a little more difficult to make for labiaplasty since the labia are not presented as prominently in social situations as a woman's bust, but I argue that in general, cosmetic surgery can be empowering for men and women who were born with features considered less attractive. Why should they be condemned to being less attractive than others due to factors outside of their control (genetics)?
Magdalene I would be interested in your response to this, and great writing as usual!
It would be cheaper, less painful, and less dangerous to just get rid of the loser who think your lady parts aren't good enough.
And leave him with a parting shot about dick implants.
It's fascinating, that as a woman with a labia, you would go toe to toe with someone who profits from women wanting labiaplasty.
Curious too that in a world obsessed with size, that a man with a large penis is a cultural ideal, whereas a woman with a large labia is not equally desired. *sigh*
And as a sex educator, might I point out to the class that labias are erogenous tissue. Altering the labia can damage the nerve endings and impact a woman's ability to feel pleasure.
Found the roastie.
Empowerment is what I call a double-A word: “automatic assent.” Who could argue with it? So when you use it, you’re not trying to have a discussion, you’re trying to preemptively shut down the argument in your favor. You were right to call it out.
Everyone feels the need to justify certain choices by claiming they lead to empowerment or feminism, like posing naked for Playboy.
But it's anything but true feminism and empowerment!
It makes me sad that women "fix it" just because a man commented on it. Where do we draw the line?
I guess it's easier than just admitting to yourself that you're a slave to Da Patriarchy.
I had never heard of labiaplasty until now.
Having just experienced immediate menopause due to uterine cancer and a complete hysterectomy, I have noticed my labia have now grown and are larger and now appear to be “curly iris petals “ rather than the right orchids they once were.
That was a long sentence. I need to go back to school so I can learn more about sentence structure and labiaplasty. Wow.
I suppose after that I’ll learn about surgical vaginal tightening and reformation.
Do we really need these things? Do I need the appearance of my lady parts to appear as aesthetically pleasing as porn stars lady parts appear?
Hmmm
I’m not getting my face botoxed, I think I’ll skip labiaplasty unless mine decide to grow halfway down my thighs or begin to get in my way when cleansing.
Thanks for your thoughts on this procedure as well
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
What price vanity? Are you really 'individual' if you dress, style, color, shape or cut yourself to look like everyone else?
What happens to your psyche when you don't have that look and you never will? Wait, I know...It's all advertising people, you were sold the sizzle and not the steak!
Is Labiaplasty "Empowering?" No, it's demeaning, it tells you that you aren't the perfect person.
Know what ? Perfection is boring as Hell and when everyone is perfect, no one is!
Ms. Taylor has it exactly right. The desire of an individual to undergo labiaplasty does not arise spontaneously but as a manifestation of social pressures to conform to a rigid - and unnatural - (and, at least for this hetero, cisgender male, highly unappealing) standard of beauty. Not only is that not empowering - it is diametrically opposite to empowering.
Alas, genital modification surgery as a way of conforming to rigid, unnatural, culturally-constructed and socially enforced standards also affects boys and men. Many of the same cultural forces that have led to the popularization of labiaplasty are also behind the persistence of the practice of non-therapeutic penile circumcision. The penile prepuce has been vilified for over 150 years in a way that women's labia are now beginning to be vilified. The solution to our culture of body-shaming and profound dysfunction is not to succumb to this social pressure about genital appearance but to oppose it.
https://dbalablog.blogspot.com/2020/01/on-stigmatizing-male-prepuce-and-male.html
Relax bro, she’s not going to sleep with you.
This is SO GOOD! It really takes me back to high school debate (in a good way). I love how you framed the discussion around what it actually means for something to be empowering in a broader cultural sense. So glad I found your newsletter through The Review of Beauty!
loved this! and hated the collection of photos of women holding flowers over their vulvas?? I remember a few months back being on tumblr and seeing a model whose account talked about her appearance a lot (staying thin, work she’d had done on her face, etc) saying that she was getting a labioplasty ‘just for myself’. I couldn’t put my finger on why I found it a strange explanation- mostly because it’s not something you can see yourself without trying, I guess. and I couldn’t conceive of how much you had to have internalised an external gaze to (I truly mean this without judgement) have someone unnecessarily cut and alter your labia. I think it takes a huge level of disconnect for the small ‘just for me’ feeling to overpower the human desire to not have your genitalia cut. her entire life has such a different context to mine that I know I wouldn’t get where she’s coming from, but sometimes I don’t think that necessarily means the contexts behind surgery (etc) aren’t a problem. e.g. I know with a lot of facial alterations in general it’s because everyone around someone (or the people they see online) has these things done, and so it completely changes your perception of it, whereas for so many people it’s still a foreign thing. I think most people can at least understand the concept of altering your face (the thing that you ‘wear’ everyday) in the same way we understand makeup and haircuts, though I do think it’s a different thing to cut into it, shave bones, and implant substances. but a labioplasty does seem like it’s a next level thing. maybe the urge to be so precious about the vulva being a symbol of empowerment in itself (eg mugs, dresses, notebooks with artsy vulva prints on them) is an issue on the other hand, because it makes something that’s so personal and can be sensitive for some people into what’s supposed to be a girlboss motif. but in general I think there’s a reason why many people find it hard to conceive of getting a labioplasty- it’s so far removed from a typical way of thinking about your appearance, and I’d even say it’s an extreme step for something that’s ‘empowering’
Well done, woman! I know women who have had this procedure. All of them have done it for the male gaze. There was a woman, I believe in Great Britain, who actually did an art installation of prints women made of their labia. THAT was empowering!
If someone loses interest in you because of the way your genitals look, (and I can't emphasize this enough)
*you have dodged a bullet*
I like how these procedures are very obviously done because a woman has a neurotic relationship with her body.
Yet comments still blame “MUH PATRIARCHY!” Or bring up the old, tired line about “the male gaze” as if men really gave a shit.
Send all the big, messy, untidy labias my way, thanks
There was a freshman philosophy seminar at my Alma mater where the professor (a man) had as his first lesson a slideshow of pictures of vulvas and asked the class to critique the appearance of different labias.
And people wonder why philosophy, as a discipline, has such a marked gender imbalance and scares women away.
Is there a recording of the debates? I would be interested to watch.
I haven't heard the arguments the good doctor made in support of the statement "labiaplasties are empowering", but I will make a brief argument that breast augmentations or other cosmetic mammoplasties are empowering and try to generalize that to all cosmetic surgeries including labiaplasty:
Being attractive is a form of social power (for both men and women). Optimal breast size, shape, and symmetry can make a woman appear more attractive. Without mammoplasty, breast size, shape, and symmetry are dictated by factors largely out of women's control, putting women with less attractive breasts at a social power disadvantage to those with breasts considered more attractive. Mammoplasty allows these women to control the appearance of their breasts and make them more attractive, granting them additional social power.
The argument is a little more difficult to make for labiaplasty since the labia are not presented as prominently in social situations as a woman's bust, but I argue that in general, cosmetic surgery can be empowering for men and women who were born with features considered less attractive. Why should they be condemned to being less attractive than others due to factors outside of their control (genetics)?
Magdalene I would be interested in your response to this, and great writing as usual!