The fact is the majority of men voted for a rapist, racist, and wannabe-fascist, and no obfuscating arguments about the price of eggs and anxieties about the housing market is going to make that not a fact. The majority of men showed that they do not care all that much about the rights, dignity, and human flourishing of women--many of whom they live with. As Audrey Lorde said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." It's beyond odd to double down on how much men and women need each other and how women should be giving men access to our bodies and labor in a climate in which male entitlement is rampant, violence against women and girls is increasing, pregnancy could be deadly, and rapists can now choose the mother of their child.
I would love for us not to be divided. It's the dream. But the war on WOMEN (let's please stop staying "gender war" - this is "both sides" nonsense) is dividing us. Men are welcomed as allies...but where are they? They're apparently in your comment section arguing about how feminism is the devil and it's men that are oppressed, actually. When men step up en masse, supporting women and showing their true allyship, women will no doubt welcome them with open arms. Because that's the thing--this "both sides hate each other" is also not the whole picture. Women are making Tiktoks that say "I hate men." But do women really HATE men, or are they just angry? Women aren't the ones creating political coalitions to strip men of their bodily autonomy. Women aren't dumping all housework and childcare on men. Women aren't murdering their whole families because their husband wanted a divorce. What hate actually looks like, is what men do. When more men stop doing that, we'll be less divided. Simple!
I largely agree with you here! There is a war on women. I do also think there is simultaneously a gender war underway online that is not actually contributing to our liberation as women. A lot of what women are expressing is indeed valid anger, but I worry that some iterations of it on social media are not productive.
It's a shame that you largely agree with her because she is wholly wrong and her worldview entirely gynocentric ("Men are welcomed as allies..." / "...this is both sides nonsense") and misandrist ("What hate actually looks like, is what men do."). 4B = MGTOW
I love women. But I do not love women who hate men. Nor do I support them in their efforts to destroy themselves, and by extension, creation itself.
The majority of men? The majority of men who voted, sure. And if that's your standard, white women were only two points behind men at 53%. I guess every white woman should also be completely shunned? Also everyone over the age of 40. Also anyone from a red state. If someone is a member of a group that voted the wrong way, they are your enemy. (even if they didn't vote the 'right' way)
From what I've experienced one major reason guys don't "step up" en masse is because, for better or worse, being seen as pro-feminist and pro-women (or even aware of feminism more generally) often reduces a man's status among his peers. This is less true in certain social circles (white collar, college-educated, etc.) but it's definitely something I've experienced.
"The fact is the majority of men voted for a rapist, racist, and wannabe-fascist, and no obfuscating arguments about the price of eggs and anxieties about the housing market is going to make that not a fact."
The fact is the majority of women who voted for a candidate who supports men's rights over women's rights, an authoritarian in her own right and for whom most of her college-educated white cheerleaders agreed with, doesn't make her the better choice. You all ALSO don't believe women have autonomy over their bodies--not when it's men pretending to be women demand access to women's sports teams, private changing spaces and even our goddamn PRISONS. Did you know a female prisoner on Riker's Island is suing NY state for allowing a *convicted rapist* to stay in the prison--who raped *her*? Who supported that? It wasn't the MAGAs or the Donald, it was women *exactly like you* (although maybe you're the exception who doesn't hate women as much as your progressive sisters do). Not when it's men successfully suing to force women to shave their balls and parade their dick around women who did not CONSENT to this male penetration into women's private spaces. No, we are told by *progressive women* to be *good little girls* and prioritize what men want over women's rights and safety, AS ALWAYS, because the poor wittle baby-wabies are so (self) maaaaaaarginalized.
And FYI, women don't need to murder their families for a divorce. They're just doing it for the helluvit, leaving broken hearts and broken families in their wake while they 'celebrate' their 'freedom' by 'liberating' themselves from a family they've grown bored with.
Fuck the kids. Fuck the man who still loves you. This is all about you you you you you.
I understand your sentiment but it is worth noting that not just 55% of men voted for Trump; 45% of women voted for him, too. Does this mean almost half of all women are self-hating misogynists? And the answer here may vary, I don’t know what you think about that, but the point is that the issue goes beyond *just men*.
I think a lot of your anger, rightful as it is, ought to be pointed at the patriarchy before men specifically. Because those two are completely different things!
"Men are welcomed as allies...but where are they?"
You aren't exactly Karen Straughan.
"how feminism is the devil"
It's always been a battering ram by the ruling class led & shaped by women who've advocated for pedophilia (to name a few, Millet, Firestone, Rubin) or for that matter, engaged in grooming and raping kids while advocating for pedophilia (Beauvoir). Feminists had so much issue about it that you'll find more articles about Fuentes' troll phrase which was made 10 days back, than you'll find about these women advocating for such things. Let's not even talk about critique of it. And these are hardly randos, Millet & Firestone basically created patriarchy theory, Rubin shaped queer theory & founded "gay and lesbian studies" from which "gender spectrum" spawned, and Beauvoir, heh, helped shape 2nd wave & "gender theory." Rubin still works as a professor btw. So does Camille Paglia, despite being outspoken NAMBLA, pedophilia, cp, and snuff porn supporter for decades. In fact, when she got protested a few years back by feminists & leftists, you know what they protested her about? "Transphobia." But not over advocating for pedophilia. Which, again, not a surprise! Where were feminist groups in UK as grooming gangs mass raped kids for decades? In Germany, in fact, when women spoke about it, feminists called them "nazis."
"Women aren't the ones creating political coalitions to strip men of their bodily autonomy."
Hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainian men would like a word.
"Women aren't murdering their whole families"
That's mostly because most of those victimized never make it past the womb to become family in the first place. To give you a rough estimate, there's been over 600,000 abortions in 2021 in US.
Fuentes intended his words to be hurtful. Unless someone has given him a license to rape, his words are only words, and they can only hurt you if you let them.
Otherwise, 4B feminists seem to be in the midst of a collective tantrum. Last time, it was silly pink hats. This time, It's Serious. I suppose it's the same reason why, contra feminist mythology, women (not men) were traditionally most zealous in slut-shaming - because sluts were the equivalent of scabs undercutting the union price.
Absolutely agree that this cycle of outrage is destructive for men, women and society in general. We have at least two much more powerful and dangerous enemies than each other: our adversaries (Russia, Iran, China, N. Korea etc.) who benefit when we are divided, and the rage mongers who profit enormously from the clickbait machine. What absolute fools we are to fall right into their traps.
Wait I don’t even know how I’m subscribed to this but I just unsubscribed so quickly lol. The point isn’t the “gender divide” it’s that women finally feel free to express what’s been true for so long, our lives aren’t enriched by men! Now there’s less shame and freedom around it
Haha yes exactly. It’s not a gender divide. It’s called women realized men add nothing to our lives and we are acting accordingly by removing them from our lives romantically. This piece is kinda trash
But what makes a man add less to one’s life as opposed to a woman? Why aren’t we looking at each other like people? Maybe I’m just misunderstanding your point here.
Look, I get many women are angry and fearful about the election, I am too, but blanket claiming all men are evil is not only demonstrably untrue but is also entirely self defeating.
Did most men vote Trump? Yes, but even at the higher estimate of 57% that still means that millions of men voted against him. Hell, in my state of Colorado we even voted to end shire reproductive rights in our constitution. I don’t care for the fact me and others like me are be put in the same basket as those that voted for the giant Cheeto. I don’t want recognition, I don’t want or expect any reward for doing the bare minimum, but I would like it if I were not vilified. And before any says something like “Well, allied men should’ve worked harder to convince other men not to vote Trump”, do really think Trump voters listen to leftist men? Hell, even my own father and brother, the two men who love me most in the world, don’t give a rat’s ass about my political opinions.
Look, if you want to abstain from dating and sex because you fear the future of your reproductive rights under the current regime, I understand. But if you think you’re somehow getting back at all the men who voted for Trump, you have another thing coming. You’re more likely hurt those men who care about women’s rights than the Trumpists, and you’ll just continue the trend of pushing away the younger generation of men and boys who will see the hatred of men on the left and flock to alt-right because at least they don’t think all men are evil.
One reflection I keep having on the election - we’ve gotten ourselves into A LOT of trouble conflating groups individuals identify with and the primary issues they care about
I’ve heard plenty of women online say that women’s rights are not a priority for them, and it’s kind of offensive to assume that it will be their deciding issue just because they identify with a group (that feels demeaning in my opinion)
It opens the door for a lot of hate (in both directions), and keeps us divided
Nah. Please do your research next time. 4B is not pushing women to be more online. At all. I’ve been 4B for years. Before it was called “4B.” I’ve never been happier or more fulfilled in my life. Remember, 4B does not mean you have to entirely remove men from your life. I work with men, and have platonic male friends (the husbands or partners of my friends mostly). So it’s not like we are removing men from our lives entirely. We just have no interest in sex, dating, and marriage.
I have a better community of friends (male and female) than I have ever had. I have hobbies, I live peacefully , I have a good career. You’d be surprised at how when you remove dating from your life, you actually have time to do so many other more fulfilling things, and also you have more time to build community. This piece is chronically online IMHO. I have not met one woman who went 4B and ended up lonelier. I’ve only met women whose lives were made much better by it.
Genuinely don't know how to reverse the damage this is all doing besides trying to push more media to show healthy, normal people who treat the other gender well, and for normal people to not be afraid to say that yes, they do like the other gender and they don't think the weirdos fighting a gender war are right.
Yeah, after all the media hype I was surprised that the Great Gender Divergence wasn’t nearly as big as what was promised. Sure, young men shifted to the right, but young women *also* shifting to the right wasn’t expected. I’m curious how much of young men’s shift to the right was driven by the media narrative.
In the universe where media outlets don’t inflame the “gender war”, does Harris end up winning more men? Does Trump end up winning more women? Both of these possibilities seem likely to me, especially the latter.
Just a simple example to remind me that all is not lost: A man I know confronted two transgender women friends of mine saying they couldn't enter a women only event because they weren't real women. That flew through our small community like toxic waste. As it should. But calmer, more level heads stepped up to say, Dude, you're, well, a dude. Women will decide who gets in. Curiosity led me to take this man aside for another common behavior: "That's sooo gay" as well as the transgender incident. I asked him why he said what he said, what was he thinking. He said he didn't know. I asked him if he thought that words could be violence, could cause violence. He didn't know, he never thought about it that way. There was no epiphany. I smiled. I told him if I couldn't change his mind, I'd settle for shutting his mouth. Not long ago he asked me if I was queer did that mean I was a feminist? (where on Earth...!?). I had already schooled him on the queer thing so I asked him what he thought a feminist was. "They hate men". Nope, I said. It's about equality for all, across the board, all people. I'm old enough to remember how psyched we all were when the Equal Rights Amendment was first proposed. That was over 50 years ago. Congress has yet to move on it. He really was shocked. Small epiphany. And yes, I told him, I happen to be both. In private he tells me I make him think about things he never thought of. He says he's glad I don't hate him. He occasionally asks me things. I'll keep asking him why he thinks what he thinks. The young men around here look up to him. I ask him, what would he think if I was raped, maimed, killed for being queer, or a feminist or a woman? At least he doesn't say he doesn't know. I am one person. I can listen to another person. I am old and there is that idea in our community that that makes me worth listening to. He does. But I remind myself that I now live in a world where Ireland, one of the most Catholic of countries, has legalized abortion and the U.S., where women once had the right to choose, is recriminalizing it. Talk without action is impotent. I'm no Lysistrata, but at least I can cross the border to procure the morning after pill and the abortion pill when they are needed down here. There is work to be done, but one man who has a great deal of influence over the younger men around him has a new perspective because I took a breath and talked to him where he's at. We see each other. He is finally seeing the two transgendered women as legitimate members of our community. At least around me, (which is often now that we are on a grassroots committee for homeless rights) he refrains from misogynistic nonsense he has been known for. And he would be my driver if we had go across the border. Even after my decades of human and civil rights work, this small thing is a huge win.
This article does a good job summarizing an overview of how both neutral men and women feel. I think without getting into politics that women are definitely still worth pursuing and its not too terribly hard.
If any men are going along at all with what that idiot is saying on twitter then they need to grow up and actually try to talk to women irl instead of just continuing to be in paranoia and complaining.
We(women too) should have no patience for that type of complaining.
even though things have gotten worse (venues closing). I do still think the problem is men just not putting in the effort or not being ready to try and put themself out there. You cant be hooked on sports, sports betting, any type of social media and still expect to be able to maintain your full time job while dating someone.
There are plenty of men that haven't even been on much dates and they are almost 30!! (yes myself being one of them). It's not emergency levels of bad yet so if guys and women aren't actively seeking each other out at the moment, maybe they just need their own space to get their lives in order. In my case yes I could do much better with organization, getting proper sleep, properly grooming (haircut, shaved, laundry). Yep I am a mess at times and believe it or not some guys just don't have it together.
Seems like 4B and MGTOW are two mirror images of the same problem.
The only major difference is that while a man can leave MGTOW and start a family past 40, a woman can’t. She’s forever trapped by her terrible choices and the future smells like box wine and cat piss.
As a survivor of an all-boys Catholic High School from 96-99, I just feel like the world is trying to reset the gender dynamics back to what I experienced then.
That's pretty impressive! McQuaid is also in NY, just on the other side of the state lol. I legit had FOMO as a teenager because there wasn't really anything similar for girls!
Great take. This election has felt more gendered than any in my lifetime. In many respects it can be seen as toxic masculinity vs toxic feminity. But most of us are quite reasonable, caught in the cultural crosscurrents.
The fact is the majority of men voted for a rapist, racist, and wannabe-fascist, and no obfuscating arguments about the price of eggs and anxieties about the housing market is going to make that not a fact. The majority of men showed that they do not care all that much about the rights, dignity, and human flourishing of women--many of whom they live with. As Audrey Lorde said, "When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." It's beyond odd to double down on how much men and women need each other and how women should be giving men access to our bodies and labor in a climate in which male entitlement is rampant, violence against women and girls is increasing, pregnancy could be deadly, and rapists can now choose the mother of their child.
I would love for us not to be divided. It's the dream. But the war on WOMEN (let's please stop staying "gender war" - this is "both sides" nonsense) is dividing us. Men are welcomed as allies...but where are they? They're apparently in your comment section arguing about how feminism is the devil and it's men that are oppressed, actually. When men step up en masse, supporting women and showing their true allyship, women will no doubt welcome them with open arms. Because that's the thing--this "both sides hate each other" is also not the whole picture. Women are making Tiktoks that say "I hate men." But do women really HATE men, or are they just angry? Women aren't the ones creating political coalitions to strip men of their bodily autonomy. Women aren't dumping all housework and childcare on men. Women aren't murdering their whole families because their husband wanted a divorce. What hate actually looks like, is what men do. When more men stop doing that, we'll be less divided. Simple!
I largely agree with you here! There is a war on women. I do also think there is simultaneously a gender war underway online that is not actually contributing to our liberation as women. A lot of what women are expressing is indeed valid anger, but I worry that some iterations of it on social media are not productive.
It's a shame that you largely agree with her because she is wholly wrong and her worldview entirely gynocentric ("Men are welcomed as allies..." / "...this is both sides nonsense") and misandrist ("What hate actually looks like, is what men do."). 4B = MGTOW
I love women. But I do not love women who hate men. Nor do I support them in their efforts to destroy themselves, and by extension, creation itself.
Otherwise, I appreciate your writing, Magdalene.
The majority of men? The majority of men who voted, sure. And if that's your standard, white women were only two points behind men at 53%. I guess every white woman should also be completely shunned? Also everyone over the age of 40. Also anyone from a red state. If someone is a member of a group that voted the wrong way, they are your enemy. (even if they didn't vote the 'right' way)
From what I've experienced one major reason guys don't "step up" en masse is because, for better or worse, being seen as pro-feminist and pro-women (or even aware of feminism more generally) often reduces a man's status among his peers. This is less true in certain social circles (white collar, college-educated, etc.) but it's definitely something I've experienced.
"The fact is the majority of men voted for a rapist, racist, and wannabe-fascist, and no obfuscating arguments about the price of eggs and anxieties about the housing market is going to make that not a fact."
The fact is the majority of women who voted for a candidate who supports men's rights over women's rights, an authoritarian in her own right and for whom most of her college-educated white cheerleaders agreed with, doesn't make her the better choice. You all ALSO don't believe women have autonomy over their bodies--not when it's men pretending to be women demand access to women's sports teams, private changing spaces and even our goddamn PRISONS. Did you know a female prisoner on Riker's Island is suing NY state for allowing a *convicted rapist* to stay in the prison--who raped *her*? Who supported that? It wasn't the MAGAs or the Donald, it was women *exactly like you* (although maybe you're the exception who doesn't hate women as much as your progressive sisters do). Not when it's men successfully suing to force women to shave their balls and parade their dick around women who did not CONSENT to this male penetration into women's private spaces. No, we are told by *progressive women* to be *good little girls* and prioritize what men want over women's rights and safety, AS ALWAYS, because the poor wittle baby-wabies are so (self) maaaaaaarginalized.
And FYI, women don't need to murder their families for a divorce. They're just doing it for the helluvit, leaving broken hearts and broken families in their wake while they 'celebrate' their 'freedom' by 'liberating' themselves from a family they've grown bored with.
Fuck the kids. Fuck the man who still loves you. This is all about you you you you you.
I understand your sentiment but it is worth noting that not just 55% of men voted for Trump; 45% of women voted for him, too. Does this mean almost half of all women are self-hating misogynists? And the answer here may vary, I don’t know what you think about that, but the point is that the issue goes beyond *just men*.
I think a lot of your anger, rightful as it is, ought to be pointed at the patriarchy before men specifically. Because those two are completely different things!
"Men are welcomed as allies...but where are they?"
You aren't exactly Karen Straughan.
"how feminism is the devil"
It's always been a battering ram by the ruling class led & shaped by women who've advocated for pedophilia (to name a few, Millet, Firestone, Rubin) or for that matter, engaged in grooming and raping kids while advocating for pedophilia (Beauvoir). Feminists had so much issue about it that you'll find more articles about Fuentes' troll phrase which was made 10 days back, than you'll find about these women advocating for such things. Let's not even talk about critique of it. And these are hardly randos, Millet & Firestone basically created patriarchy theory, Rubin shaped queer theory & founded "gay and lesbian studies" from which "gender spectrum" spawned, and Beauvoir, heh, helped shape 2nd wave & "gender theory." Rubin still works as a professor btw. So does Camille Paglia, despite being outspoken NAMBLA, pedophilia, cp, and snuff porn supporter for decades. In fact, when she got protested a few years back by feminists & leftists, you know what they protested her about? "Transphobia." But not over advocating for pedophilia. Which, again, not a surprise! Where were feminist groups in UK as grooming gangs mass raped kids for decades? In Germany, in fact, when women spoke about it, feminists called them "nazis."
"Women aren't the ones creating political coalitions to strip men of their bodily autonomy."
Hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainian men would like a word.
"Women aren't murdering their whole families"
That's mostly because most of those victimized never make it past the womb to become family in the first place. To give you a rough estimate, there's been over 600,000 abortions in 2021 in US.
Fuentes intended his words to be hurtful. Unless someone has given him a license to rape, his words are only words, and they can only hurt you if you let them.
Otherwise, 4B feminists seem to be in the midst of a collective tantrum. Last time, it was silly pink hats. This time, It's Serious. I suppose it's the same reason why, contra feminist mythology, women (not men) were traditionally most zealous in slut-shaming - because sluts were the equivalent of scabs undercutting the union price.
Woulda tweeted back, "Is it rape if it's so small she can't feel it?"
Lmao! Sluts=scabs. THE WORLD WIDE PUSSY CARTEL MUST BE PROTECTED!
You know what’s also left out here? Among “pro life”, the gender split is roughly 50/50.
In other words, there are a lot of women who want to “control other women”.
Absolutely agree that this cycle of outrage is destructive for men, women and society in general. We have at least two much more powerful and dangerous enemies than each other: our adversaries (Russia, Iran, China, N. Korea etc.) who benefit when we are divided, and the rage mongers who profit enormously from the clickbait machine. What absolute fools we are to fall right into their traps.
Wait I don’t even know how I’m subscribed to this but I just unsubscribed so quickly lol. The point isn’t the “gender divide” it’s that women finally feel free to express what’s been true for so long, our lives aren’t enriched by men! Now there’s less shame and freedom around it
Haha yes exactly. It’s not a gender divide. It’s called women realized men add nothing to our lives and we are acting accordingly by removing them from our lives romantically. This piece is kinda trash
But what makes a man add less to one’s life as opposed to a woman? Why aren’t we looking at each other like people? Maybe I’m just misunderstanding your point here.
Look, I get many women are angry and fearful about the election, I am too, but blanket claiming all men are evil is not only demonstrably untrue but is also entirely self defeating.
Did most men vote Trump? Yes, but even at the higher estimate of 57% that still means that millions of men voted against him. Hell, in my state of Colorado we even voted to end shire reproductive rights in our constitution. I don’t care for the fact me and others like me are be put in the same basket as those that voted for the giant Cheeto. I don’t want recognition, I don’t want or expect any reward for doing the bare minimum, but I would like it if I were not vilified. And before any says something like “Well, allied men should’ve worked harder to convince other men not to vote Trump”, do really think Trump voters listen to leftist men? Hell, even my own father and brother, the two men who love me most in the world, don’t give a rat’s ass about my political opinions.
Look, if you want to abstain from dating and sex because you fear the future of your reproductive rights under the current regime, I understand. But if you think you’re somehow getting back at all the men who voted for Trump, you have another thing coming. You’re more likely hurt those men who care about women’s rights than the Trumpists, and you’ll just continue the trend of pushing away the younger generation of men and boys who will see the hatred of men on the left and flock to alt-right because at least they don’t think all men are evil.
Bro… They’re not going to fuck you. Calm down.
5bil womens in the world :D
yes we are
Roastie begone!
One reflection I keep having on the election - we’ve gotten ourselves into A LOT of trouble conflating groups individuals identify with and the primary issues they care about
I’ve heard plenty of women online say that women’s rights are not a priority for them, and it’s kind of offensive to assume that it will be their deciding issue just because they identify with a group (that feels demeaning in my opinion)
It opens the door for a lot of hate (in both directions), and keeps us divided
Nah. Please do your research next time. 4B is not pushing women to be more online. At all. I’ve been 4B for years. Before it was called “4B.” I’ve never been happier or more fulfilled in my life. Remember, 4B does not mean you have to entirely remove men from your life. I work with men, and have platonic male friends (the husbands or partners of my friends mostly). So it’s not like we are removing men from our lives entirely. We just have no interest in sex, dating, and marriage.
I have a better community of friends (male and female) than I have ever had. I have hobbies, I live peacefully , I have a good career. You’d be surprised at how when you remove dating from your life, you actually have time to do so many other more fulfilling things, and also you have more time to build community. This piece is chronically online IMHO. I have not met one woman who went 4B and ended up lonelier. I’ve only met women whose lives were made much better by it.
So in other words, 4B is just like MGTOW.
Im so grateful for your work in the gender peace talks !
Genuinely don't know how to reverse the damage this is all doing besides trying to push more media to show healthy, normal people who treat the other gender well, and for normal people to not be afraid to say that yes, they do like the other gender and they don't think the weirdos fighting a gender war are right.
Yeah, after all the media hype I was surprised that the Great Gender Divergence wasn’t nearly as big as what was promised. Sure, young men shifted to the right, but young women *also* shifting to the right wasn’t expected. I’m curious how much of young men’s shift to the right was driven by the media narrative.
In the universe where media outlets don’t inflame the “gender war”, does Harris end up winning more men? Does Trump end up winning more women? Both of these possibilities seem likely to me, especially the latter.
Just a simple example to remind me that all is not lost: A man I know confronted two transgender women friends of mine saying they couldn't enter a women only event because they weren't real women. That flew through our small community like toxic waste. As it should. But calmer, more level heads stepped up to say, Dude, you're, well, a dude. Women will decide who gets in. Curiosity led me to take this man aside for another common behavior: "That's sooo gay" as well as the transgender incident. I asked him why he said what he said, what was he thinking. He said he didn't know. I asked him if he thought that words could be violence, could cause violence. He didn't know, he never thought about it that way. There was no epiphany. I smiled. I told him if I couldn't change his mind, I'd settle for shutting his mouth. Not long ago he asked me if I was queer did that mean I was a feminist? (where on Earth...!?). I had already schooled him on the queer thing so I asked him what he thought a feminist was. "They hate men". Nope, I said. It's about equality for all, across the board, all people. I'm old enough to remember how psyched we all were when the Equal Rights Amendment was first proposed. That was over 50 years ago. Congress has yet to move on it. He really was shocked. Small epiphany. And yes, I told him, I happen to be both. In private he tells me I make him think about things he never thought of. He says he's glad I don't hate him. He occasionally asks me things. I'll keep asking him why he thinks what he thinks. The young men around here look up to him. I ask him, what would he think if I was raped, maimed, killed for being queer, or a feminist or a woman? At least he doesn't say he doesn't know. I am one person. I can listen to another person. I am old and there is that idea in our community that that makes me worth listening to. He does. But I remind myself that I now live in a world where Ireland, one of the most Catholic of countries, has legalized abortion and the U.S., where women once had the right to choose, is recriminalizing it. Talk without action is impotent. I'm no Lysistrata, but at least I can cross the border to procure the morning after pill and the abortion pill when they are needed down here. There is work to be done, but one man who has a great deal of influence over the younger men around him has a new perspective because I took a breath and talked to him where he's at. We see each other. He is finally seeing the two transgendered women as legitimate members of our community. At least around me, (which is often now that we are on a grassroots committee for homeless rights) he refrains from misogynistic nonsense he has been known for. And he would be my driver if we had go across the border. Even after my decades of human and civil rights work, this small thing is a huge win.
Ah, the work of a Karen patrolling her local community is never done! It’s like herding cats, something I’m sure you have experience in.
Well done Beth! Open another carton of red wine!
This article does a good job summarizing an overview of how both neutral men and women feel. I think without getting into politics that women are definitely still worth pursuing and its not too terribly hard.
If any men are going along at all with what that idiot is saying on twitter then they need to grow up and actually try to talk to women irl instead of just continuing to be in paranoia and complaining.
We(women too) should have no patience for that type of complaining.
even though things have gotten worse (venues closing). I do still think the problem is men just not putting in the effort or not being ready to try and put themself out there. You cant be hooked on sports, sports betting, any type of social media and still expect to be able to maintain your full time job while dating someone.
There are plenty of men that haven't even been on much dates and they are almost 30!! (yes myself being one of them). It's not emergency levels of bad yet so if guys and women aren't actively seeking each other out at the moment, maybe they just need their own space to get their lives in order. In my case yes I could do much better with organization, getting proper sleep, properly grooming (haircut, shaved, laundry). Yep I am a mess at times and believe it or not some guys just don't have it together.
Seems like 4B and MGTOW are two mirror images of the same problem.
The only major difference is that while a man can leave MGTOW and start a family past 40, a woman can’t. She’s forever trapped by her terrible choices and the future smells like box wine and cat piss.
As a survivor of an all-boys Catholic High School from 96-99, I just feel like the world is trying to reset the gender dynamics back to what I experienced then.
Did you go to McQuaid Jesuit High School by any chance? Both of my brothers went there!
Archbishop Molloy in Queens, NY. It's co-ed now.
It's the alma mater of one Andrew Cuomo!
That's pretty impressive! McQuaid is also in NY, just on the other side of the state lol. I legit had FOMO as a teenager because there wasn't really anything similar for girls!
Stop reading X and TikTok! Read serious thinkers on Substack!
Great take. This election has felt more gendered than any in my lifetime. In many respects it can be seen as toxic masculinity vs toxic feminity. But most of us are quite reasonable, caught in the cultural crosscurrents.
I've written extensively about masculine dysfunctions on the right, but yesterday I dropped a piece on the role of toxic femininity in this election, which you may enjoy. https://jeffgiesea.substack.com/p/how-toxic-femininity-fueled-trumps-election