24 Comments
Nov 5Liked by Magdalene J. Taylor

Generally speaking, the more someone showily proclaims to hate someone, the more I assume s/he is obsessed with that person's approval and attention.

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You have said it in this essay in words which resonate so beautifully. Amen. I will scream it from the roof tops “I love and need the men in my life. From my grand sons, my son, my brothers from other mothers and of course the man I live and love with. Thank you for the opportunity to put my two cents on the table.

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Nov 6Liked by Magdalene J. Taylor

This is the best thing I have read on Substack.

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I don't often say this, but THANK YOU for posting these three essays. I didn't expect to agree with you, but you explained this gender divide/dysfunction so well, and pointed out how wrong-headed it is with such skill, that you've honestly made me re-examine my ideas on it.

It IS vulnerability that we're trying to avoid. It also is laziness and frankly low-level addiction to our phones that has broken a great deal of our instinctive attraction to one another.

When I ask myself if I like women, I have to say a resounding 'yes.' Even with all their quirks and faults. I don't particularly like living alone but it's doable. But I definitely don't like being without women in my life.

I joined the military right after turning 18. The combination of no money and being in a male-dominated environment meant that I spent my formative years with very little female presence in my life. Let me tell you, it is boring as hell. Women are expensive and confusing and sometimes downright cruel. But life without women is, in my opinion, not worth living. They are also beautiful and funny and comforting and aexy as hell. I'll take that over "relaxing" any day.

I live with a woman, and we've been together now for nearly 8 years. It's not always been easy but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

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But it is about vulnerability, and the goal is indeed being open to harm. Hedging your bets by insisting on retaining control is a trap that flatters your ego but won't cure the desire for intimacy, and prevent bringing to fruition its blessings. Sapientia patris in gremio matris -- the father's wisdom resides in the intimacy of the mother. I marvel at this ancient wisdom I encounter often on hikes in Southern Switzerland where these words are often found on frescoes of Madonna with Child. I am working on an essay that will look into the violation of this intimate bond and the havoc it is causing. It is also intergenerational, it seems to me, and not just between men and women, as Magdalene so eloquently shows. The entire rise of Western Civilization (I use caps here on purpose) may be traced back to the discovery of vulnerability, and more specifically its potential for enormous spiritual and cultural growth as a centripetal force unparalleled in human history, overcomig alienation and (self-) hatred.

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This is a thoughtful and accurate analysis of our current divisive (in many ways) atmosphere. I relate strongly to what you are saying. When I was approaching my last birthday, a significant one, I decided to openly express myself and "become vulnerable".

What I've found is that the vulnerability has given me immense power. It is the power against being taken down for how I feel, what I like, and who I am.

It is the power of listening

to others express opinions different than mine, and not feeling threatened or angry about it. It is the power of acceptance of who I am.

It is the power and joy of acceptance of others.

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Nov 5·edited Nov 5

I don't like the term "vulnerable". It had to be redefined so deeply that Brown had to write a whole book explaining its usage in this context. It's confusing and sounds like the goal is to be open to harm. That's not the goal, it's a consequence. We should be genuine, earnest, and at least a little outgoing. We become open to harm and vulnerable consequentially. Using "vulnerable" this way isn't harmful, just misleading.

"Individual" in the modern, particularly American, context IS harmful. Individual people should have their personal tastes and many worthwhile pursuits demand solitude. That doesn't necessitate our becoming islands or universes unto ourselves. Many pursuits demand company and community. Some demand both - music, theatre, sports. Life demands both. Unfortunately, modern american media caters to about 400 million focus groups of one. 400 million different worlds, some attracting and some repelling, some forming larger collections which then attract and repel other collections.

I've been making an effort to talk to people absolutely anywhere. I've commented this before, but I don't think men and women hate each other. I do think everyone has their guard up and that becomes tiresome to deal with. Also, airpods. Especially if I'm trying to talk to someone with long hair and I can't tell - then I unknowingly toss words into the air and they get sucked in the vacuum of a departing train.

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I do feel like there’s a lot of trauma at play here as well. Maybe you talk about this in another essay, and if so I’m sorry to assume and I take this back. In my experience, when women say they hate men, it means “I’m so tired of being demeaned physically and mentally.” While I do think there is a role of an intimacy crisis in the gender divide, it does seem to me that perhaps the issue in intimacy is that we have lost the trust needed to engage in conflict resolution, and what it means to approach and hold shame.

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This.

"Those of us expressing our distaste for the opposite gender are often doing so in response to disappointment. These are people who once had the desire for closeness and relationships and have had it beaten from them through years of rejection, mistreatment and loneliness. But hating each other does not offer any sort of collective fix. It’s an individual reprieve that worsens the source of the problem."

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To me, proclaiming separateness or exiling individuals, no matter which group or creed or sex you’re pointing this projection at feels like a result of growing up in a system that surgically/systemically removes empathy. We blindly taught ourselves to survive in a system designed around lack and most of what we learned is akin to a dog barking at something it doesn’t recognize, lmao.

I don’t really know what the fix is, but it feels like regrowing the phantom limb of empathy towards one’s own self is a start. Toxic masculinity exists in the world because it exists in us. Separateness exists in the world because it exists in us.

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Totally depressing but totally true

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I think you're correct that people don't want to be vulnerable, but arguably that's for good reason.

I remember in earlier days of the internet, 2000-2005ish, there was this blogging site called Xanga that people would use like a digital "dear diary", basically pouring their heart and soul out on the webpage for total strangers to read.

Occasionally I see people post in a similar style now. But oftentimes the reason it came to my attention is that the person is being ruthlessly mocked. In the modern era of the quote tweet, virality, and post-ironic sarcasm, the discourse has been saturated by playground bullies, who take the display of vulnerability as a sign of weakness. You're no longer an individual pouring out your heart and soul -- now you're just confirmation that all the negative things we've been saying about your group are true.

I'll give some quick examples from each gender to illustrate the phenomenon:

* There have been a number of Tiktoks which went viral where a young woman was crying about her inability to find a partner, or about her job / her commute. Lots of male commentators scold her for various reasons -- "suck it up honey, that's just how the world works, you need to work on yourself and your standards", etc.

* Previously there was a trend where men would post online saying "Hey I'm a nice guy, I'm not able to find a gf, I'm feeling lonely. Seems like women are going for jerks. What gives?" Lots of female commentators start making assumptions: "If you were so nice, you wouldn't expect sex. Clearly you're an entitled monster who views relationships as transactional. You think being nice means you deserve sex? This represents a deep moral failing on your part. Stop trying to control our choices!"

Everyone knows social media is driven by engagement, and conflict drives more engagement than reconciliation. If I saw someone being vulnerable online, I could, in theory, respond by saying something like: "I hear you. That sucks. Let me know if you want to talk. Hope things turn around for you soon." But that sort of content is really boring, and would not receive much engagement. The nastiness is what gets engagement. That teaches people that if they show vulnerability, others will exploit their weakness.

Humans are social primates. We imitate what we see others do. And what I'm seeing now is a sort of second-order cultural saturation of post-ironic mockery. People are imitating the deliberately-obnoxious taunting style employed by clout-chasing engagement farmers, but in their personal lives. The problem with this style is it's practically optimized to make people hate you ("it's bad on purpose to make you click"). A good choice for gaining followers and upvotes, perhaps, but a terrible choice for sustaining compassionate, devoted relationships in your personal life.

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Oh, this makes me so sad. We’re all traumatized, can’t talk about it because being vulnerable is seen as weak, and there aren’t enough psychologists for everyone. What to do? What happened to The Great Mystery?

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I completely agree that a lot is being lost. One thing that strikes me is phones which are a handheld computer now days. We can consume endless amounts of information looking at shocking videos on reddit, tiktok, but those things are a big waste of time.

Do i feel like a stranger now days at local events? Yes kind of when I was in a college town i knew everyone so we would hang out at each other's houses. When I see friend's facebook empty for over a year without posts, it just makes me think they have to be working extremely hard working on their own lives, or busy somewhere lying on a beach not worrying about anything. I would meet people at more events but it's hard my interests don't usually align but -- what are my interests now days?

<---and thats where i think we messed up a lot of people's interests could be youtube or tiktok so that does not lead to much strong friendships

"Had it beaten from them through years of rejection, mistreatment and loneliness." - yep it's not that i gave up I mostly stopped caring or choose to self-focus. Reason? I always felt like an imposter in college especially didn't connect that well with people. I learned to self-entertain for a while yes and can immerse myself now days in foreign language study or what I would call a dress up game (idolm@ster lol).

Well a bit of a positive, I plan to write some type of zine why? Someone i knew from Middle school days wrote one and it was a cool way to see how they became so deep. Maybe that will help with creating a stronger sense of self.

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I'd really like to speak with you about threads specifically.

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I love this! What a thoughtful exposition of the issues and habits of thought that impact and exacerbate our gender divide.

I confess I haven’t yet read the first two essays, so please forgive me if my comment covers territory you’ve already addressed. I find it helpful to differentiate between different “layers”—there are people, individual men and women, there are group identities (not only men or women, but also transgender and nonbinary ). Then there are traits / ideals like masculinity and femininity and all the cultural baggage that gets loaded onto those terms. Beyond that are the systems of power and control, formal and informal. Here is where we find the painful effects of patriarchy and capitalism. And these exist alongside other, less well-known systems like the “sharing economy” described in Robin Wall Kimmerer’s

Braiding Sweetgrass. Patriarchy and Capitalism are not sustainable on a planet that has disgorged too much carbon into the atmosphere. And they are too exploitative —of people, water, land, labor.

I recall back in my 20s explaining over and over that my pursuing opportunities as a woman didn’t automatically mean I hated men. I like men! Many of them, anyway. Yet some men truly are threatened by powerful, intelligent women. They have not yet learned the basic truth that my good fortune need not diminish yours. People who know their own worth have an innate resistance to the petty divisive lies. There is plenty of joy and love and opportunity to go around. Rejoicing in the good fortune of another becomes an act of resistance in dark times. It is the antithesis of the division they seek to stoke.

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I love you for addressing this at all, thanks, and thanks for your reasonable tone. Yes, we do need each other, and yes, there seems to be some antipathy towards each other.

Maybe this has something to do with vulnerability, I don't know. (I don't think that's the main cause.)

I think it has everything to do with the fact that we have no idea what we need each other for. (Intimacy? Nah, it ain't that, that's "scratching an itch".)

As far as I can tell (and that may not be very far at all) the only reason we started hanging out (longer than 2 minutes at a time, back in the day) with each other (as male and female) was because - kids. Our oversized, useless on their own, always hungry progeny needed two (at least) invested adults to keep them alive. And our ancestors were done alloparenting (if they did at all), so step up dad! To keep this alliance going, you need to build connection, to be intimate, vulnerable.

And since we today have decided to forego kids, we have no common project, no issue "larger than ourselves", and hence it is all about ME (or you). We are not looking for potential co-parents any more, we are looking for lifecoaches and cheerleaders, travel companions and therapists. "What's in it for me?"

Further, we don't understand each other, at all. We have no siblings, no grandparents, no aunts or uncles, no cousins. And no blueprint or framework for neither relations nor roles. How am I supposed to act and communicate in this relationship? Who can I learn from? What is a woman? (Other than my mother) - what do girls like? What is a man? A boy? What do they like? (Really? That's so gross!)

Sadly, we (men and women) are not that similar - I still don't fully understand my wife (after 30 years), and she does not always get me. Some things I do to accomodate her, and she occationally pretends to be my gym-bro. We still hang out (and hold on) because we have a common project (and because we have grown to like one another), that's gonna last a lifetime; kids. And with that project comes the liking each other, the We wanting to be together, the downplaying of each others shortcomings and dissatisfaction with them, and so we overlook, ignore, accept and embrace these flaws for the sake of our common lifelong project.

I believe the challenge/problem lies in the dichotomy "I want kids and I need a partner for that" vs "I want a partner, and if he/she is a perfect match, and all my other ducks are in a row, I might want kids."

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